Sunday June 18, 2023 | NATIONAL [some typos fixed June 20, 2023]
(transcript by Mary P Brooke, Editor, Island Social Trends)
UPDATE June 27, 2023: NB cabinet shuffle: “…new cabinet is aligned with our priorities of standing up for New Brunswickers”.
The inclusion of parents in a child’s decision to grapple with a gender identity change or a related name/pronoun change in school has become a hot political debate in New Brunswick.
Key points in this debate are how the school system has handled policies without telling parents, and also bringing in policies that intentionally exclude parents.
In BC the education system refers to these discussions within their SOGI (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity). The BC SOGI-Inclusive Education Resource Guide is a set of recommendations by educators who have been actively supporting students of all sexual orientations and gender identities for years. [We will clarify the BC position on this matter, next week.]
Meanwhile as in BC SOGI has proceeded ahead in schools (and it was a significant point of discussion during the recent school trustee elections in October 2022), we find it important to provide the full transcript of an interview with New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs today on Father’s Day, who articulated the concerns. ~ Editor, Island Social Trends
Transcript of NB Premier Blaine Higgs on CBC’s Rosemary Barton Live – Sunday June 18, 2023
RB: “We begin in New Brunswick, and the fallout over changes to part of the province’s LGBTQ policy in schools. Starting July 1, students under 16 will need consent from parents to change their name or pronoun. If they can’t get that consent they will be sent to a school psychologist or social worker. NB’s Minister of Social Development resigned over these changes, as well as criticism of the premier’s leadership style.”
Clip: “This policy 713 and the debate that ensued in the House really kind of was my last straw. I just decided that it was time. I didn’t feel I could accomplish anything more in this cabinet with this premier and thought it was time to make the move.” – Dorothy Shephard, MLA
RB: “Premier Higgs, thank you for joining us. So these changes … I’m not going to say anything that’s news to you here. That these changes to policy 713 have led to a lot of problems and some uproar in your political landscape: election chatter, ministers resigning, caucus members walking out on question period because they’re upset with you. Why are you making these changes now Premier?”
Higgs: “It is a difficult discussion. What we’re hearing certainly are parents learning more about the policy and wanting to know more and wanting to play a role in their children’s education. I don’t think that’s anything that should be unexpected, in the sense that parents want their responsibility. And that’s what’s brought this all to a head. More parents have learned about a policy that is in place in the school system and wondering how there could be a policy that could actually hide information from them. I appreciate that not all parents’ and childrens’ situation is at home. But the policy’s fundamental shouldn’t rule out all parents. So we’re trying to find a path forward to protect the children and to involve the parents when the time is right and have the right people involved in the process”.
RB: “But the uproar is being caused by the changes to the policy which now means that students under 16 need parental consent to change their names or pronouns, and if that’s not possible, then they have to go to a guidance counsellor or a social worker. How does that help children who might be dealing with that issue?”
Higgs: “It helps because it puts them in a position to speak to trained authorities…. so they can have these conversations openly with them. They will understand situations at home and a plan will be put together that will protect that child, and maybe at some point educate the parents as well in what the next steps should be. That is all this is, is finding the right path. That is the big challenge. I don’t think anyone would disagree with the philosophy that parents should have a role. But the time has to be right for the student, that’s the goal… and the purpose is finding that right time. But not purposely going on for, say, months or years with the parents totally outside of the loop.”
RB: “You used some language yesterday in the legislature that frankly I don’t think helped the situation. You talked about gender dysphoria becoming ‘popular and trendy’. You said: ‘We have a situation that’s growing because there’s acceptance that this is fine.’ Do you think those are appropriate comments? Do you have a problem with gender dysphoria?”
Higgs: “My position is as a grandfather and as a father is that kids especially in vulnerable years in elementary school years – are toddlers being exposed to – ‘well I may not be a boy or girl’. That is the role of parents, parents need to play a role. Those are very formative years. So how do we ensure that everyone understands what is being presented, what’s in the school system, and then we work through it.”
RB: “I’m wondering if your personal views are influencing your policy decisions, because it sounds like they are.”
Higgs: “It’s not my personal views, it’s about the role of apparent and a grandparent. Thinking about my grandchildren now that are attending school. Her parents would not know what she’s being taught or information being supplied. I think most parents take for granted that the school system is doing everything that they would approve of. But there are so many things that parents are asked for their consent on, so many things, and yet gender identity is not one of them.”
RB: “But do you realize that there are children who would not feel comfortable telling their parents about that, so school would be the same place for them to identify in the gender of their choosing?”
Higgs: “I do understand that, so that’s why our goal is to put a process in place — to work with parents, children, teachers, guidance counsellors, the professionals — to help us build a plan. A plan that allows for the child to be protected and the plan eventually would have parents involved in supporting their children… not alienating the parents and the child, but finding a way to bridge the gaps in maybe how they’re thinking.”
RB: “There are critics, as you know, that say that this policy is transphobic.”
Higgs: “This policy is very similar to other policies in the country. You can look at other provinces. This policy is reflecting what other policies (provinces) already do, particularly our neighbours here, maybe six years ago in Nova Scotia. That was put in at that time by the Liberal government. So when you think about that, why is this such a big issue? I just think it’s become a big issue because more parents are learning about it. The policies have gone in place. They aren’t put in place in a way that makes the parents understand them – they’re just kind of put in the system and one understands what they are or what is actually happening. I think parents are just realizing that.”
RB: “I would argue that it’s a big issue that you’ve had a cabinet minister quit, you’ve had caucus people upset and now there’s talk that you’re ready to call an election over this. Which to me is kind of surprising… I would argue that’s why it’s a big issue not because the parents are suddenly learning about it.”
Higgs: “We might differ in that thought. I don’t think name calling and people just stop speaking or talking about it is the solution. But I think some very direct conversations in how do we deal with this situation that in reality exists today. That’s what we’re trying to create, that sort of process that actually will allow both safety for the children and a path where parents can stay engaged with those responsibilities they have of being a parent.”
RB: “There is talk of an election as early as Monday. Is that something … are you willing to go an election over that issue, is that important to you?”
Higgs: “I never said anything about an election happening on Monday. Probably someone asked me a question in that regard, would I go to an election. I don’t want to go to an election, and that isn’t my intent to do that. There’s lots of questions about whether I should continue as leader. If that is the kind of situation that develops when tough conversations need to be held, we need to get better as a society. It does not help that the prime minister kind of calls me out and takes a hard line against parents. That’s not helpful.”
RB: “Well he’s not taking a hard line against parents. I don’t think that’s what he was doing, with all due respect. I think he was trying to protect the rights of people who want to identify in the gender that they choose”.
Higgs: “So we should be able to do both and we shouldn’t exclude parents in the process.”
RB: “Dorothy Shephard, who quit, as you know, said that it’s not just about this, it’s about your style of leadership and the way you’ve handled this issue demonstrates that there are leadership problems. That you’re doing this without listening to people around you essentially.”
Higgs: “We had the majority of caucus. Most often you don’t get unanimous approval, but we had the majority of caucus that we needed to find a path forward on this. I appreciate she was not one of those, along with some others. But if our process is that every time there’s a tough issue and we don’t agree, walking away is not the solution, it’s finding the path forward.”
IslandSocialTrends.ca news links: POLITICAL NEWS | EDUCATION NEWS
===== ABOUT ISLAND SOCIAL TRENDS & the EDITOR:
Island Social Trends has been covering politics, business, education and communities through a socioeconomic lens since 2008 on south Vancouver Island (previously as West Shore Voice News, and before that both Sooke Voice News and MapleLine Magazine).
Island Social Trends posts news daily at islandsocialtrends.ca (2020-2023). A new bi-weekly print edition will launch in mid-July 2023, with the online news portal continuing robustly.
Mary P Brooke is the editor and publisher of Island Social Trends. Ms Brooke followed and wrote extensively about the COVID pandemic during 2020-2022, and continues to follow that topic as new developments arise. She has covered news of Sooke School District 62 (SD62) in-depth since 2014 and BC education more broadly for over 10 years; in 2022 she ran as a trustee candidate in SD62. In the west shore she also reports on West Shore Parks and Recreation and various municipal council issues. Mary Brooke is building a FOOD RESILIENCE NEWS ARCHIVE.
Ms Brooke now reports with the BC Legislative Press Gallery. Mary Brooke was awarded the McGeachy Prize in Journalism (University of Saskatchewan, 1981) and in 2023 year has been nominated for the Jack Webster Foundation Shelley Fralic Award honouring women whose work in journalism serves their community.
Among other qualifications, Ms Brooke holds a health sciences B.Sc. (Foods & Nutrition), a university Certificate in Public Relations, and an industry certificate in digital marketing.
She is actively covering the by-election in Langford-Juan de Fuca. | BY-ELECTION NEWS SECTION